[Magic] Chinese-lization of English Magic Terminology
Alright, so I have engaged into this discussion about the validity and necessity of translating English Magic Terminology into Chinese. I am disappointed not because of the majority opinion of these HK magicians against me, as they are entitled to their own opinions as I do, it's more because of the grounds that they presented. The following version is slightly different from the what I have actually posted in the forums, as I think this version won't be able to pass the censorship.
From Miracle forum: http://forum.i-miracle.com/index.php?topic=262.0
I am a strong supporter of the Chinese-lization of English Magic terminology. Apparently, the majorioty opinion would be no such a need or the notion is impractical, pursuant to the freedom of speech, guess I deserve a chance to defend for my belief as well. So, let's exam the arguments here:
1,
引用自: 大聲聲 於 四月 13, 2006, 10:02:22 pm
或者補充多兩句：
zenneth大師是採用直譯的方法, 呢個問題在於一翻做廣東話會變得好怪雞。...但這並不合港式文化。意譯同樣有問題，問題就係知英文名詞，總覺得跟中文風馬牛不相及，
Obviously, this is indeed a real problem, which I have encountered much difficulties when dealing with it, my personal thought is, we can only try our best in the given circumstances, which is what I did.
2,
引用自: Pierre To 於 四月 13, 2006, 10:36:53 pm
個人認為中文譯本的Technical terms對於學習card magic的作用不大，事實上絕大部分學習card magic的朋友都會用英文terms來交流, 大家等於用相同的語言來溝通，而且外國魔術教學及lecture亦以英語為主，學習了中文terms實無太 大幫助。
How about Chinese magic hobbists in this world who don't understand and speak English? I have done a China National Lecture Tour during the period of Dec 2005 - Feb2006, and I am very positive that the number of people who understand English is significantly fewer then those who speak Chinese among the attendents of my lecture, and I doubt if they will rather opt for me to conduct the lectures in English.
There is something I like to remind you too, a couple of years ago, I have sent an article which was written in english to Magician's Association of Hong Kong, and it was exactly you whom told me to submit it in Chinese form, because there are many members whom don't read english!
3a,
引用自: Alex Ng 於 四月 14, 2006, 01:33:45 am
語文是用來溝通的，基本上需要有廣泛的認受性，
Can't agree anymore
閉門造車去譯 d terms 係人都識，但有幾多人明？什麼撥動、橫攤、下推、上凸、下凸？你試下問十個魔術師，睇下有幾多個知你講乜？
I do believe there are very few Chinese magicians fully understand terms quoted above, but what is the reason for this?
3b, 同樣魔術亦有其專業用語，而絕大部份魔術書籍都是以英語寫作的，
不懂英文用語，九成以上的魔術書籍都看不懂，還學什麼魔術。
Mr. Ng, excuse me? You probably want to re-read this again.
Do you mean, a person shouldn't or that he is not permitted to learn magic because he doesn't speak or understand English?
I feel sorry and pathetic for you that you have such a thought, because it's very discriminating.
If I were a mainland chinese magic hobbist, I love magic very much but I don't speak english at all, and some HK dude like you walk up and talk to me like:" Hey, you, yeah, I am talking to you, it's pointless for you to learn magic, because more than 90% if the magic publications are written and published in english. You don't understand english, so you can't learn magic." Not sure about others, I'll beat the shot out anyone who speak to me like that.
Bullshit! All english books are written in english, and if you don't speak english, so there's no point for you to learn everything written in english? Now give me a reason why you understand english, because you learn english with its Chinese definition!
3c, 如果真的要將這些魔術用語中文化，首先要有一個在中國具權威性的資深魔術師去統籌
So, who is this authoritive chinese magician? Is there such a person going to do it? And if there is no such a person, then we shouldn't do it at all?
還需要以該等用語大規模地將大量魔術書籍翻譯成中譯本，並須得到廣泛的支持和認同。
Yes indeed!!!!
現在我看不到有這樣的一天 ............
Of course, I certainly wouldn't see such a day too if I were in your shoes...
4,
引用自: Mr Magic Albert 於 四月 15, 2006, 06:25:18 am
I totally agree with what Alex and Pierre mention about the basic use of words or language are communication.
Interesting that you've actually chosen English to express your thought here, by no means I am trying to offend you, but the grammatical mistake in your sentence is pretty obvious, my point is, my english sucks too, I am sure you will agree that we can communicate our ideas more efficiently and accurate in Chinese, because Chinese is our native language, as well as the native language for many other Chinese magic hobbists too.
我比較欣賞日本在文化上的取向，試問就算全中國的魔術愛好者都知道"雙翻"的意思，又是否可以與海外同好溝通呢？
There's no point developing Chinese terminologies because we can't use Chinese to communicate our ideas with overseas magic hobbists?
How about magic hobbists who are english speaker? Even they all know exactly what is "Double Turover", can they communicate their ideas in english with all the magic hobbists in China or any other non-english speaking countries? I suppose they can't, so there is no point for them to even name the a move, in this logic.
Well, 要把外文完全化成自己的語文，我相信不可能是一人能做到的事，
Yes, of course! It needs the involvement and participation of everyone! But tell me who is doing it now? I am one of the few, if not the only HK magician who's doing it now! And I really appreciate your understanding.
有兩重點我們必需理解，1/ 魔法藝術的門類並不簡單，
So? Is there a particular form of performing arts much easier to learn than Magic? Convince me with evidence if you could.
2/多了一堆我們不了解的名詞，是幫了忙，還是會增加麻煩呢？
huum...there's a new term emerging every second along with the evolution of the society which we don't quite familiar with, are they helping us? or are they causing trouble to us?
That is a good question...
But how ironic yourself are translating at least part of the english text from Linking Rings magazine into Chinese too...
If you don't see the need to to develop a set of Chinese translations for English magic terminology, I am sure you don't see the need to develop a set of Chinese translation for petty much everything in English.
Right, fair enough, maybe I should think from you guys' point of view too: We all speak and understand some english, We can always learn magic through english, so why the heck should We care about other Chinese magic hobbists who love magic but don't speak English? Of course, they shouldn't learn magic because they don't speak and understand english...hahahaha
Why don't you guys stop for a second and think why could we see the English version of books by Ascanio and Juan Tamariz, because someone translated them from Spanish into English for us!!! It would be really zany, though, if there is one or a few magic hobbists who speak both English and Spanish think that:
Why in the world someone's translating these books from Spanish into English, we can always learn magic in Spanish...
I certainly hope you guys will now realize that it's actually very selfish to think that we don't need to translate anything from English into Chinese because we can read English, if that is your justification.
But then again, it really has little to do with me now, because I am tired of doing anything text publication of magic in chinese too.
Zenneth
From Miracle forum: http://forum.i-miracle.com/index.php?topic=262.0
I am a strong supporter of the Chinese-lization of English Magic terminology. Apparently, the majorioty opinion would be no such a need or the notion is impractical, pursuant to the freedom of speech, guess I deserve a chance to defend for my belief as well. So, let's exam the arguments here:
1,
引用自: 大聲聲 於 四月 13, 2006, 10:02:22 pm
或者補充多兩句：
zenneth大師是採用直譯的方法, 呢個問題在於一翻做廣東話會變得好怪雞。...但這並不合港式文化。意譯同樣有問題，問題就係知英文名詞，總覺得跟中文風馬牛不相及，
Obviously, this is indeed a real problem, which I have encountered much difficulties when dealing with it, my personal thought is, we can only try our best in the given circumstances, which is what I did.
2,
引用自: Pierre To 於 四月 13, 2006, 10:36:53 pm
個人認為中文譯本的Technical terms對於學習card magic的作用不大，事實上絕大部分學習card magic的朋友都會用英文terms來交流, 大家等於用相同的語言來溝通，而且外國魔術教學及lecture亦以英語為主，學習了中文terms實無太 大幫助。
How about Chinese magic hobbists in this world who don't understand and speak English? I have done a China National Lecture Tour during the period of Dec 2005 - Feb2006, and I am very positive that the number of people who understand English is significantly fewer then those who speak Chinese among the attendents of my lecture, and I doubt if they will rather opt for me to conduct the lectures in English.
There is something I like to remind you too, a couple of years ago, I have sent an article which was written in english to Magician's Association of Hong Kong, and it was exactly you whom told me to submit it in Chinese form, because there are many members whom don't read english!
3a,
引用自: Alex Ng 於 四月 14, 2006, 01:33:45 am
語文是用來溝通的，基本上需要有廣泛的認受性，
Can't agree anymore
閉門造車去譯 d terms 係人都識，但有幾多人明？什麼撥動、橫攤、下推、上凸、下凸？你試下問十個魔術師，睇下有幾多個知你講乜？
I do believe there are very few Chinese magicians fully understand terms quoted above, but what is the reason for this?
3b, 同樣魔術亦有其專業用語，而絕大部份魔術書籍都是以英語寫作的，
不懂英文用語，九成以上的魔術書籍都看不懂，還學什麼魔術。
Mr. Ng, excuse me? You probably want to re-read this again.
Do you mean, a person shouldn't or that he is not permitted to learn magic because he doesn't speak or understand English?
I feel sorry and pathetic for you that you have such a thought, because it's very discriminating.
If I were a mainland chinese magic hobbist, I love magic very much but I don't speak english at all, and some HK dude like you walk up and talk to me like:" Hey, you, yeah, I am talking to you, it's pointless for you to learn magic, because more than 90% if the magic publications are written and published in english. You don't understand english, so you can't learn magic." Not sure about others, I'll beat the shot out anyone who speak to me like that.
Bullshit! All english books are written in english, and if you don't speak english, so there's no point for you to learn everything written in english? Now give me a reason why you understand english, because you learn english with its Chinese definition!
3c, 如果真的要將這些魔術用語中文化，首先要有一個在中國具權威性的資深魔術師去統籌
So, who is this authoritive chinese magician? Is there such a person going to do it? And if there is no such a person, then we shouldn't do it at all?
還需要以該等用語大規模地將大量魔術書籍翻譯成中譯本，並須得到廣泛的支持和認同。
Yes indeed!!!!
現在我看不到有這樣的一天 ............
Of course, I certainly wouldn't see such a day too if I were in your shoes...
4,
引用自: Mr Magic Albert 於 四月 15, 2006, 06:25:18 am
I totally agree with what Alex and Pierre mention about the basic use of words or language are communication.
Interesting that you've actually chosen English to express your thought here, by no means I am trying to offend you, but the grammatical mistake in your sentence is pretty obvious, my point is, my english sucks too, I am sure you will agree that we can communicate our ideas more efficiently and accurate in Chinese, because Chinese is our native language, as well as the native language for many other Chinese magic hobbists too.
我比較欣賞日本在文化上的取向，試問就算全中國的魔術愛好者都知道"雙翻"的意思，又是否可以與海外同好溝通呢？
There's no point developing Chinese terminologies because we can't use Chinese to communicate our ideas with overseas magic hobbists?
How about magic hobbists who are english speaker? Even they all know exactly what is "Double Turover", can they communicate their ideas in english with all the magic hobbists in China or any other non-english speaking countries? I suppose they can't, so there is no point for them to even name the a move, in this logic.
Well, 要把外文完全化成自己的語文，我相信不可能是一人能做到的事，
Yes, of course! It needs the involvement and participation of everyone! But tell me who is doing it now? I am one of the few, if not the only HK magician who's doing it now! And I really appreciate your understanding.
有兩重點我們必需理解，1/ 魔法藝術的門類並不簡單，
So? Is there a particular form of performing arts much easier to learn than Magic? Convince me with evidence if you could.
2/多了一堆我們不了解的名詞，是幫了忙，還是會增加麻煩呢？
huum...there's a new term emerging every second along with the evolution of the society which we don't quite familiar with, are they helping us? or are they causing trouble to us?
That is a good question...
But how ironic yourself are translating at least part of the english text from Linking Rings magazine into Chinese too...
If you don't see the need to to develop a set of Chinese translations for English magic terminology, I am sure you don't see the need to develop a set of Chinese translation for petty much everything in English.
Right, fair enough, maybe I should think from you guys' point of view too: We all speak and understand some english, We can always learn magic through english, so why the heck should We care about other Chinese magic hobbists who love magic but don't speak English? Of course, they shouldn't learn magic because they don't speak and understand english...hahahaha
Why don't you guys stop for a second and think why could we see the English version of books by Ascanio and Juan Tamariz, because someone translated them from Spanish into English for us!!! It would be really zany, though, if there is one or a few magic hobbists who speak both English and Spanish think that:
Why in the world someone's translating these books from Spanish into English, we can always learn magic in Spanish...
I certainly hope you guys will now realize that it's actually very selfish to think that we don't need to translate anything from English into Chinese because we can read English, if that is your justification.
But then again, it really has little to do with me now, because I am tired of doing anything text publication of magic in chinese too.
Zenneth
posted by Zenneth | 6:02 am
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